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1:03

I'm Oprah Winfrey. Welcome to

1:06

Super Soul Conversations, the

1:08

podcast. I believe that one

1:10

of the most valuable gifts you can give yourself

1:12

is time. Taking

1:15

time to be more fully present.

1:18

Your journey to become more inspired

1:20

and connected to the deeper world

1:23

around us starts right

1:25

now. Janine Roth

1:28

has been teaching the principles

1:30

of her groundbreaking bestseller, Women,

1:32

Food and God, for over 30 years. Janine

1:35

was one of the first to help us

1:38

all see beyond the term food

1:40

addict. She believes the level

1:42

of our spiritual well-being can be

1:45

discovered in how, when,

1:47

and what we eat. Thank

1:49

you for joining us for Super Soul. I'm

1:52

thrilled. I think you're one

1:54

of the first people who actually

1:56

years ago made

1:58

the connection that our relationship... to

2:00

food is an exact microcosm

2:03

of our relationship to

2:05

life itself. Yeah. That's

2:08

amazing. And so that connection

2:10

has a profound, as profound an

2:12

impact when you first discovered it as

2:15

it does today. Because I think most

2:17

people can't even understand what that is,

2:19

women, food and God. It's also men too, because

2:21

I've shared the book with men. Yeah.

2:24

Tell us what you mean. Yes. Well,

2:26

what I mean is that if

2:29

you follow one thing

2:31

all the way through to the end,

2:33

you'll find everything. Yeah. And

2:35

so the subtitle of women, food

2:37

and God is an unexpected path

2:39

to almost everything. So how you

2:41

eat and what you believe about

2:43

food, particularly when you're not hungry.

2:46

And if you deprive or judge

2:49

or shame yourself in

2:51

your relationship with food and ask yourself about

2:53

it and just track it all the way

2:56

back, it will lead you to everything. It

3:00

will? Yeah. The

3:02

whole. Yeah. It will

3:04

lead you to the whole. It will lead you to the

3:07

whole and to the whole that you're trying to fill to

3:09

fill yourself up and to the whole that you've been missing

3:11

and to the whole. That's right. To

3:13

the whole, whole. To the whole, whole. To the

3:15

whole. To all of it. Yeah. To

3:17

all of it. So in

3:19

that sense, food is a spiritual issue.

3:21

I'm so glad you said that because

3:24

if you examine your relationship with food

3:27

and you find what's keeping you

3:29

from discovering that whole, whole, that

3:32

actually is the essence of spirituality.

3:34

What you find is that

3:37

your essence, your true

3:39

nature, what many people call

3:41

God, but it's right there and food will

3:44

take you right there. Yeah. It's

3:46

all on the plate. It's all on the plate. So

3:49

in Women, Food and God, you write

3:52

this about the reason

3:54

why we binge. You

3:57

say compulsive eating is an attempt to avoid the absence

3:59

of the whole. of love, of comfort, of

4:01

knowing what to do. In the

4:03

process of resisting this emptiness, in

4:06

the act of turning away from our feelings,

4:08

of trying and trying again to lose the

4:10

same 20, 50, 80 pounds, we

4:14

ignore what could utterly transform

4:16

us. But when

4:18

we welcome what we most want to

4:21

avoid, we evoke that

4:23

in us that is

4:25

not a story that is not

4:27

caught in the past, not some

4:30

old image of ourselves. We evoke

4:32

divinity itself. That's what you

4:34

mean when you say God exists on our plates.

4:36

Yes, that's exactly what I mean. I was just

4:38

going to say, I couldn't have said

4:41

that better myself. And you actually did.

4:43

But I didn't say that. Yes, yes, yes, yes,

4:45

yes. And how did you come to know

4:48

this? You didn't come to know this just

4:50

because you were sitting around thoughtfully, pensively, writing

4:52

stuff. You've been on the journey. No, I

4:54

came to know it because my own issues

4:57

with food were so

4:59

hellish. I really do

5:01

feel like I lived in a hell world for

5:04

many, many years. And

5:07

to the point

5:09

where I wanted to kill myself, and I

5:11

was in fact suicidal, I was a couple

5:13

of days away from killing myself. I

5:16

had gone to a bookstore to discover the best

5:19

way to do this. This was back in the

5:21

late 70s, early 80s. And I

5:23

discovered a book called Fat as a Feminist Issue

5:25

by Susie Orbach. And it

5:27

was the first time, that

5:30

was the first moment where I realized my

5:33

relationship with food was the way that I was

5:35

trying to speak to myself. And

5:37

I knew that shame and deprivation and guilt

5:40

and punishment never led anybody

5:42

to change. Thomas presents Pondering the

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Bagel with Tom. Oh, the paradox

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But only travels from toaster to

5:54

plate. Thomas's Huzzah,

5:56

a toast to breakfast. a

6:00

good idea, it's natural to do a

6:02

double take. That's what you might do

6:04

when you hear Discover will automatically double

6:06

the cashback you've earned on your credit

6:08

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6:11

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6:13

double the cashback is something

6:15

so good you might do

6:18

a triple take. See terms

6:20

at discover.com/credit card. You

6:22

recently shared a three word directive

6:25

in this article you wrote to

6:27

stop the feelings of

6:29

shame after overeating. What are

6:31

they? Be unspeakably kind. Be

6:36

unspeakably kind to yourself. To

6:38

yourself and to that which

6:40

turns to food because

6:42

my newest

6:45

understanding is that

6:48

when people say I have

6:50

a food problem, I don't actually feel like

6:52

it's the I that has

6:54

a food problem. It's not who they

6:56

really know themselves to be. It's not

6:58

their truth. It's not their true nature.

7:01

It's some part of themselves,

7:03

some sort of frozen, unnamed

7:06

and very unwelcome part of

7:08

themselves go away. I don't

7:11

want to hear from you and because

7:13

I call those ghost children. I was

7:15

going to say that one of the

7:17

ghost children. Those are the ghost children

7:19

because they haunt you and what they

7:22

do because we never listen to them,

7:24

they turn to food. Okay so let's

7:26

explain what that means. Yes very good.

7:28

So everybody has as a part of

7:30

their psyche what you call these ghost

7:32

children. I do and they're parts of

7:34

ourselves that got developed in the first

7:36

couple of years of our lives. Yes

7:39

parts of ourselves that got developed but

7:41

are also I've heard it described this

7:43

way that constant tape that plays over

7:45

and over in our hands. Yes that's

7:47

right. That is the story that we

7:49

tell ourselves about ourselves. That's right. Yes

7:51

and we each that ultimately means I'm

7:53

not good enough. That's right. I'm not

7:55

lovable and I'm unworthy. Ultimately that's right.

7:58

Yeah I'm unlovable and I'm unlovable. but

8:00

we each have sort of different takes

8:02

on that theme. It's just thought and

8:05

belief patterns, really, based on

8:07

the stories we tell ourselves. And

8:09

so in order to antidote that,

8:12

it takes naming and welcoming

8:14

the unloved parts

8:16

of ourselves. And

8:19

that's a hard thing to do. So that is what

8:21

we need to begin to do, to

8:23

end this battle, the

8:25

struggle with food, the misuse

8:27

of food forever. In

8:31

2008, Justice Jeanine Roth

8:34

was putting the finishing touches on

8:36

her seminal work, Women, Food and

8:38

God. She was dealt a

8:40

devastating blow. Jeanine and

8:42

her husband Matt were among the thousands

8:44

of people who invested their life savings

8:47

with New York financier, Bernie Madoff. After

8:49

Madoff was sentenced to 150 years in prison

8:54

for operating a $65 billion Ponzi scheme, considered

8:58

the largest financial fraud in

9:00

U.S. history, Jeanine and Matt

9:02

lost everything. How

9:05

do you, when you've had

9:07

your life savings and everything

9:09

that you've planned in your whole

9:11

life, is

9:14

sort of like wiped from under you?

9:16

What prayer do you say? First

9:19

you cry? I cried. I

9:23

had very close friends. The first one

9:25

I called said to me, nothing

9:27

of value has been lost. And

9:29

I said to her, this is not the time

9:32

to be spiritual. That's

9:42

good. That's good. Yes,

9:45

we're only spiritual when

9:47

we're happy and things are going well. We

9:50

have a lot. This

9:54

is not the time to be spiritual. Forget

9:56

it. Yes. I

10:00

realized that's I think but you know

10:02

what opera what that was one of

10:04

the best things that ever happened to

10:07

me in my life so and you

10:09

know why cause when

10:12

you look I lost every we lost everything

10:14

we lost we lost all of

10:16

our money with made off all of it. And

10:19

the 30 years of life savings

10:21

gone. All of it. Got

10:24

a phone call. Jeanine are you

10:26

sitting down. I thought my

10:28

friend was going to tell me she just had a

10:30

bad hair day and instead she said made off this

10:32

in handcuffs and I realized

10:35

we've now lost everything. And

10:38

as you suspected anything before nothing because

10:40

the friend who got us involved with

10:42

it had been invested for

10:45

30 years. And

10:47

they lost everything too. And he

10:49

got all of his other friends into it

10:52

out of the generosity of his heart because

10:54

he really thought yes it was that come

10:56

on this guy so great. But when you

10:58

lose everything because

11:00

I had to focus on what I had not

11:03

what I didn't have because there was no way

11:05

of getting through the night with

11:07

that kind of terror of

11:10

having lost everything talk about shame and

11:12

blame yes, I blame

11:14

you so not seeing for not

11:17

knowing how could anybody not know

11:19

and so and then I realized

11:21

if I was going to live

11:24

if I was going to sleep if I

11:26

was going to exist I had to bring

11:28

mice mind back from the from the terror

11:30

and start focusing on what was good and

11:32

I had to be fierce about it there was

11:35

no choice about

11:37

it because otherwise I would careen

11:40

off into such grief and

11:42

terror and shame and it was not a

11:44

way to live and it took me a

11:46

couple of days to come to this good

11:48

friends who basically said to me focus

11:51

on what you have enough of not

11:55

what you've just lost and so I

11:58

pick up a cup I have a cup. I

12:00

have water I have arms I have

12:02

legs I have breath I have a

12:04

husband I love I still have a

12:06

roof over my head and and you

12:08

know what the most amazing thing happened.

12:12

Within 3 to 4 days maybe

12:14

a week. I was happier

12:16

than I had been in years. When

12:19

you had lost everything yes because when you

12:21

start seeing what you have not what you

12:24

don't have what's good not what what's wrong

12:26

okay, but so tell me what did you

12:28

still have because it's one thing if you

12:30

say I lost everything but my

12:33

house was paid for and I

12:36

had so you know you're going to have your

12:38

home right. I did my house was not paid

12:40

for okay. I had the

12:42

House but which was mortgaged after the health

12:44

plus a home equity line of credit that

12:47

we owed on big

12:49

mortgage car sweaters and

12:51

that was it on the physical

12:53

level so when you get

12:56

the phone call do you first think how are

12:58

we going to live you first think we're

13:01

doomed you first think. Oh

13:03

yes, doomed doomed completely doomed

13:05

doomed doomed. I

13:08

call my husband who's in Antarctica at the

13:10

time and I said hi honey, nobody

13:13

died. But we did lose all of

13:15

our money. We start crying

13:17

both of us he says sweetheart we're

13:19

going to be OK but I had

13:22

confidence in myself after a week

13:24

that that my mind could start going

13:26

to the brink of terror and

13:28

I can bring it back so no

13:30

matter what horrible thing happened ever

13:32

for the rest of my life. I

13:35

saw that if I was

13:38

conscious about noticing what

13:40

I did have not noticing what I

13:42

didn't have noticing what was good that

13:45

changed my mood. Every

13:47

day and that's when it really

13:50

becomes a spiritual principle and practice

13:52

and practice that's the main practice

13:54

when the principal becomes more than

13:57

a principal but becomes a that's

13:59

right. It changed me. It

14:02

changed me because I got

14:04

happier and happier. He

14:07

couldn't steal really what

14:09

was important the most. And, you know...

14:12

Exactly what your friend said. Yes.

14:15

Nothing of value has been lost. Yes, that's

14:17

right. Yeah, don't go talking that spirituality stuffed

14:19

me. Yes. Right.

14:22

So in essence, he couldn't steal... I'll let you

14:24

finish the list. He couldn't steal what was good.

14:26

He couldn't steal, you know,

14:29

the goodness, the everyday

14:31

goodness, the sheer magnificence

14:34

of trees, of earth, of

14:36

the fact that I still had a body and

14:38

I still had a partner that I love. Well,

14:40

you're one of the blessed ones because I know

14:42

a lot of people who went through serious depression

14:44

over that. Yes. And why wouldn't

14:47

you? Yes. Yeah. I

14:50

was just going to say... If you don't have a spiritual practice to

14:52

turn to... If you don't have a spiritual practice, you're lost. Yeah.

14:55

I think if you don't have a spiritual

14:58

practice, you're lost. You're lost. You're

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15:53

the same spiritual practice that got

15:57

you through that terrible time is

15:59

what But you also applied to

16:02

being in your body, having

16:04

an intention to heal. That's right.

16:06

And using that for food. Yes,

16:09

right. Using that for food.

16:11

Right, because a lot of it is in

16:13

women, food, and God. And so we're talking

16:15

about different kinds of principles that are also

16:17

included in that book, but I've just made

16:19

them more specific. Okay, so

16:21

you've come up with some ways now

16:24

of not just theorizing about what it

16:26

means to have food be

16:29

a spiritual relationship. There are five steps.

16:31

One of them is landing in your

16:33

body. What does that mean? Yes, it's

16:35

coming out of your mind and into

16:37

your body. So most of

16:39

us live in our minds. Of course. I

16:42

mean, I love my mind. It is

16:44

sharp and smart and sparky and feisty.

16:47

And I mean, great mind. And

16:50

so, I mean, and to come down

16:52

here, I mean, so uninteresting. And

16:55

so I think it's

16:57

important because number one, when

17:00

you feed, when you eat, you're feeding this. You're

17:02

not feeding this. I mean, you are, of course,

17:04

ultimately. But you're feeding your body. And I think

17:06

for a long time, I didn't get that. That

17:09

you were feeding your body. Yeah, I mean,

17:11

I was eating for comfort because I was

17:13

sad, because I was lonely, because I was

17:15

grieving, because I was ashamed, because

17:17

I felt unloved. But I didn't quite

17:19

get that the food going in

17:22

the mouth was not about loneliness or

17:24

comfort or sweetness or whatever, or because

17:26

I felt empty, but that I was

17:29

feeding this. So that's one thing. The

17:31

other thing is just gratitude for having

17:33

a body at all. Just

17:36

shearled these arms and

17:38

these legs and

17:40

this heart and this liver have

17:43

schlepped me, have taken me from place

17:45

to place for so many years. And

17:47

what have I done to it? I

17:50

have basically just said, I'm lonely. Here,

17:53

eat this. There was an appreciation.

17:55

It wasn't thank you, Bonnie. I

17:58

think about that a lot. particular I

18:00

think you think about it certainly the

18:02

more mature you get and thoughtful about

18:05

yourself in your life like wow my heart

18:07

has been pumping for 62 years. Wow,

18:13

I know when you go to

18:15

the doctor and you do like

18:17

wow I go wow you beautiful

18:20

heart. Yes, yeah, on

18:22

girl. Yes, that's

18:24

pretty amazing it is amazing and we don't

18:26

wherever you are in your life right now

18:28

that your heart your heart has been doing

18:31

that. Without you have

18:33

thousands of times a day asking the 3rd

18:36

reason I'm I'm very into this

18:38

out of your mind into your body is that

18:40

your body is the only

18:43

place where you can really know presence.

18:46

It's what Eckhart calls the

18:48

power of now yes, yeah because

18:50

it's now your breath is

18:52

only now the sensations in

18:54

your arms in

18:57

your legs. They're happening

18:59

now yeah, I get that

19:01

so they're the gateway to

19:04

everything we say we want which

19:06

is to be in touch with

19:08

presence itself or essence

19:10

or true nature. This

19:13

body is the gateway to that

19:15

so you know you feel my feet are on the

19:18

ground you feel the point of contact your feet are

19:20

making the air yeah, that's it and then you feel

19:22

the Earth and it's like whoa the Earth pretty

19:24

darn good. Yeah, then you feel the

19:27

point of contact your hands are making with each other or

19:30

wherever your hands happen to be and

19:32

then where your back is touching

19:35

and so you just become aware and of

19:38

the presence of your body. Yeah, yeah, that's and

19:40

you are with it and then you're with it

19:42

and if you want to OK so what's that

19:44

going to do for me Janine I'm now fully

19:47

president my body and now what okay, well what

19:49

it will help you not do is

19:52

eat when you're not hungry, okay,

19:54

if you're in your body, it's

19:56

hard to want to put food

19:59

in there. when it doesn't want it.

20:01

So you start a relationship with

20:03

you, with you who you

20:06

take yourself to be, which is sort of the

20:08

voice and your body. And

20:11

you say, am I

20:13

hungry? No. Okay, then

20:16

what do I want? And what does this

20:18

body want right now? So

20:20

you're asking yourself what your

20:22

body wants. To

20:25

help control the urge to binge

20:27

and repair the spiritual connection between

20:29

what you eat and what you

20:31

believe, Janine Roth suggests

20:34

these five steps. First,

20:37

land in your body. Second

20:39

step, name, love, and question

20:41

what Janine calls your ghost

20:43

children. Next, set

20:46

your intention to heal. Number

20:49

four, notice what's good.

20:52

And finally, identify foods

20:55

that work for you. Okay,

20:58

name and love the ghost children.

21:00

Name, love, welcome them.

21:02

It's like, okay, fine. I'm

21:04

run by that part of me that thinks,

21:06

and this is what we usually call I,

21:09

this is what I don't want people to

21:11

do, is call it I. I have this

21:13

feeling that I'm unworthy, or I'm unlovable, or

21:15

I'm always feeling left out. First, I ask

21:17

my students, stop using I when you say

21:19

I, because it's not

21:22

you, you, it's left

21:25

out, Lulu feels left out. Then

21:27

you welcome that, and you say,

21:29

basically to that part, okay, sweetheart,

21:32

all right, honey, here you

21:35

are. And once you welcome them, and

21:38

they hear from you, they relax. Okay,

21:40

so what you're saying is that

21:43

there are parts of yourself that

21:46

are unhealed that keep

21:48

telling yourself the same old nasty

21:51

story. Nasty, really nasty story.

21:53

Whether it's not getting

21:55

enough, or not being enough, the story is

21:57

the same. It comes down to unworth. and

22:01

it has happened because somewhere in

22:03

your life, you didn't

22:05

get what you needed. That's right.

22:07

And there were these feelings of

22:09

unworthiness. And so you continue to

22:12

overeat compulsively, emotionally,

22:15

because of those unmet needs

22:17

that you are trying to

22:19

fulfill. That is what you're

22:21

saying. Absolutely. That's exactly

22:23

what I'm saying. And no matter

22:25

what kind of food eating program

22:28

you go on, I'm counting points

22:30

now, which allow me accountability. Yes.

22:33

But I am also still practicing a

22:36

level of consciousness. Yes. I

22:38

like this being in your body. For mine

22:40

is, like, what do I really want? Yes.

22:44

So I will say one of the things that the

22:47

Weight Watchers program has afforded me, accountability with

22:49

the points. Yes. But I only

22:51

eat what I want. Yes, right. And

22:53

I only eat when I want it. Yes. And

22:56

I stop when I'm full. Yes. And

22:58

sometimes I stop short of the points. And

23:00

so I, like, got points to spare. Because

23:03

darn it, if I'm not full already.

23:05

Right. Yeah. Yes,

23:08

that's right. Yeah. And so

23:10

that's sort of, you know, my

23:12

old slash new eating guidelines. Yes.

23:16

Those were part of that. Eat what your

23:18

body wants. Eat when you're hungry. Eat. Stop

23:21

when you're full. Stop when you're fat enough. And

23:23

have fun. And have fun. And then you have

23:25

to set your intention to heal, you say. Yes. And

23:28

that's where once you, let's

23:30

say it's never enough Nellie that we're

23:33

talking about. Or I'm unworthy, you know,

23:35

or whoever feels unworthy. Well, isn't this

23:37

the case now? This is, you know,

23:40

being accountable to points has really sort of helped me stop and

23:42

think, what do I really want? And do I want to choose

23:44

that over this? Yes. But

23:48

I remember many times just going unconscious.

23:51

I literally remember standing

23:53

in the pantry, just,

23:55

you know, I'm eating almonds. Because, you know, almonds

23:57

are supposed to be healthy for you. but

24:00

not a bucket. So

24:03

I'm saying though a lot of people

24:05

can't name whatever it is whatever is

24:07

the story they're telling themselves because they're

24:09

kind of unconsciously doing it. Yes,

24:12

but if you ask yourself so if

24:14

you're eating unconsciously chances are there's a

24:16

ghost child there that's what I'm saying

24:18

if it's me that eating a bucket

24:21

of almonds then I can pretty

24:23

much bet that something got triggered in

24:25

me that I wasn't aware of when

24:28

it got triggered. Yeah, so she or

24:30

some part of you want something and

24:32

it might just want a

24:34

moment to sit down and

24:37

just find out what got

24:39

triggered what happened there. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah,

24:41

I've been happy. I've been in that

24:43

yeah, okay, so set your

24:45

intention to heal means knowing

24:48

that whenever that thing

24:50

gets triggered hey, hey, just having

24:52

an aha whenever that thing gets

24:54

triggered that's really a holy moment

24:56

for you that's right that's a

24:59

holy moment that you get to

25:01

you get yet another chance. Yes,

25:03

exactly this thing. Yes, that is

25:05

the holy moment. That's why it's

25:07

a doorway that's why food is

25:09

the doorway because when you want

25:11

to eat and you're not hungry,

25:14

you have the chance yet

25:16

another chance to say. Oh

25:21

if my purpose of really when you

25:23

know what your intention is which is

25:25

to show up in this life. While

25:27

you're still here on Earth, that's the other thing that

25:30

showing up in the body does landing

25:32

in your body you get to show up on Earth

25:34

while you're still here. You don't get

25:36

to miss your life. Yeah, that's

25:38

our number one intention and if you're eating

25:40

with my thing is ice cream if I'm

25:42

eating ice cream when I'm not hungry, I'm

25:45

not doing that okay, that's why it's helpful

25:47

to remind myself that my

25:49

intention is to show up completely. Well

25:52

this friend of mine sent me this delicious ice cream so

25:56

I was I send him a note to thank

25:58

him over the holidays and thank you for saying. ice cream. And

26:00

he goes, but he

26:02

goes, I didn't know you were doing the Weight Watchers

26:04

thing. Can you still eat

26:08

ice cream? I said, I can eat anything

26:10

I want. I cannot eat the whole carton.

26:13

I eat it slowly,

26:16

intentionally and

26:18

deliberately. And I enjoy

26:21

every spoonful until I

26:24

no longer feel that sensation

26:26

of pleasure. Yes, fabulous.

26:29

Is it? Because when you

26:31

eat compulsively or

26:33

emotionally, you're missing the taste of

26:35

food. Yeah, I would agree with

26:37

that. You're doing it to assuage

26:39

the loneliness or whatever got triggered,

26:41

but you're doing it for that. No,

26:43

you're doing it to fill the hole.

26:45

Yes, to fill that hole. Okay,

26:48

the next step I love so much. Yes,

26:50

taking the goodness all around. We

26:53

miss so much goodness by

26:55

just walking past it, by

26:57

not taking time every

27:00

single day to see

27:02

the magnificence of what's

27:04

around us. That's another way

27:06

of letting yourself have pleasure and deliciousness.

27:09

Taking the goodness all around and

27:12

do it at least four or five times a

27:14

day. And just

27:16

for maybe 10 seconds, 15 seconds, just

27:19

like that, notice what's good.

27:22

Often we look through loops of lack or

27:26

eyes of lack. Well, this is what, so when I

27:28

read this, preparing for you coming on the

27:31

show, I

27:34

thought, wow, that's really good because you

27:36

know, I'm a big proponent of the

27:38

Gratitude Journal. Yes. And I

27:40

must say, I've been gratitude for so

27:42

long that it's like, gratitude, five things

27:45

every day that I'm thankful for. Yeah,

27:47

I may put them on the list.

27:49

Right. I said, I'm going to

27:51

try, I'm going to still do the

27:53

gratitude thing in the evening as a

27:56

sort of my spiritual ritual, but

27:58

I'm going to try at least three. three times

28:00

a day just to stop and

28:04

in my own present state,

28:06

think about what's going right because you say

28:09

so many people, you're

28:11

saying people think all the time about

28:13

what's going wrong. Let's look at what's

28:15

not going wrong. So I rephrased it

28:17

because I don't want the word wrong

28:19

in my energetic space. So I say

28:21

I'm going to stop at least three

28:23

times during the day and

28:26

think about what's going right. Exponentially,

28:29

your day gets better. Yes. It

28:31

really does. Without a doubt. It

28:33

is better than the five count

28:35

at the end of the day.

28:37

I know. Because you're doing it

28:39

all day long. That's right. Exactly.

28:41

And so you're establishing what I

28:43

call a ground of goodness five

28:45

times a day. You just realize there

28:48

are so many more things going right that

28:50

are going wrong. That's right. Because the brain

28:53

has a chance, which all the neuroscientists tell

28:55

us, that the bad is

28:57

like Velcro and the good is like

28:59

Teflon. And unless you actually focus on

29:02

the good consistently, intensely, frequently, your brain

29:04

can't lay down new loops. But anyway,

29:06

that's just a fancy way of saying

29:09

stop many times a day and look

29:11

at what's good. Yes. Those

29:13

people remember losing $50 more than they

29:15

remember finding $50. That's right. Yes. You

29:18

think I lost, I lost, I lost

29:20

the $50. Yes. Amazing though. Yes. Did

29:23

you find that for yourself that when you stop during

29:25

the day and think about what's going right? I

29:28

find that for myself. I do

29:30

that every day. I do it when I wake

29:32

up. I do it three or four times during

29:34

the day. Do it before I go to sleep.

29:36

And the second I do that, my whole energy

29:38

shifts. There's an energy shift. That's what I

29:40

found. Yes. Your day

29:42

gets better because you have now stopped and had

29:44

your little gratitude moment. Yes. Right. Right in the

29:47

middle of a day. Right. And your heart feels

29:49

open again. You know, I mean, I can get

29:51

very crunched down. Yeah. And

29:53

then, then if I notice what's good, then

29:55

I feel open again. And I identify foods

29:58

that work for you because when you're paying

30:00

attention you will certainly now this is interesting

30:02

I read that you don't believe that we're

30:05

addicted to sugars or carbs. I

30:08

I feel like that whole thing

30:10

with addiction has gotten a and

30:12

food has made people feel

30:15

bad about what they eat has

30:17

put moral judgments on what they

30:20

eat has made them feel uptight

30:22

and has led to a lot of unnecessary

30:24

shame you don't feel that if you eat

30:26

more sugar, I know for sure if I

30:28

start eating sugar

30:31

then that's going to make me

30:33

want something savory and salty and

30:35

then it sort of triggers a

30:37

thing in physiologically. So I'm not

30:39

saying that physiological reactions don't happen.

30:42

But what I am saying is

30:44

that where I feel like that

30:47

has become the thing of well if I

30:49

only stop eating sugar and if I stop

30:51

eating this and if I stop doing that

30:54

my whole eating problem will clear up. I

30:56

don't believe right and that's what I'm saying

30:58

that what happens is we're addicted to the

31:00

thought before we turn to food, you know

31:03

those stories you're talking about we've had those

31:05

billions of times and we are addicted to

31:07

telling those stories like dogs with bones. I

31:10

get that's what we're addicted to. We

31:13

are walking talking expressions of

31:15

our deepest convictions, everybody gets

31:17

that right we are walking

31:20

talking expressions of our deepest

31:22

convictions. Everything we

31:24

believe about love about fear about

31:27

transformation and God is revealed in

31:29

how when

31:32

and what we eat. Yes,

31:36

so in that moment what I'm

31:38

saying is feelings can't be felt.

31:42

I'm never going to get to the truth of who I

31:44

am. I might as well

31:46

eat. This is the best this

31:48

life has to offer me. That's

31:51

what I'm talking about I get

31:53

what you're talking in that moment,

31:56

all of those beliefs are revealed

31:58

in me choosing. to eat

32:01

that instead of believing that

32:03

it's possible to show up.

32:06

It's possible to feel the feelings. They're not going

32:08

to kill me. Fear isn't going to kill us.

32:11

Grief is not going to kill us. It

32:13

might feel like it is at a certain

32:15

time. But feelings don't destroy us. Absolutely. Okay.

32:18

Answer this question. I

32:21

feel the presence of God when? When

32:24

I'm outside in nature. Hmm. I

32:27

experience love when? I'm

32:30

with my husband when I'm being my

32:32

true self. I

32:34

am living my purpose when? I

32:38

am speaking the truth. Mm-hmm. When

32:41

I am being kind. Mm-hmm.

32:44

When I'm showing up completely with all

32:46

I've got. Like that one,

32:48

too. Okay. My

32:51

life force is

32:54

most fulfilled when?

32:58

Whoo. When, um. This is

33:01

where I mean we are talking like

33:04

major heavy hitters here

33:06

when I am teaching,

33:09

when I'm writing, when

33:11

I am in my heart. My

33:16

hope for my legacy is? That

33:20

people will take

33:22

what I've said and what I've written, pass it

33:25

on to their children, and be unspeakably

33:30

kind to themselves, to

33:32

nature. The most difficult

33:34

choice I've had to bake to

33:36

fulfill my destiny is? Not

33:38

having children. I

33:41

decided not to have children because I

33:43

felt like I couldn't give

33:45

myself fully to my work and

33:47

be a really good mother. And.

33:50

Me too. Yeah.

33:53

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And

33:55

I knew that there was something. One would suffer. Yes,

33:57

one would suffer. Yeah, there are people for whom. It

34:00

doesn't, but I knew for me, one would suffer. Same with

34:02

me. I just knew that was going to happen. I knew

34:04

that was going to happen. OK, here's a

34:06

good one. What is

34:08

the word that

34:13

best describes who you

34:15

are and why you

34:17

are here? Word

34:21

or words, you don't have to limit

34:23

it to one. Well, you

34:26

know, I feel like I

34:28

made some kind of contract before I came to Earth.

34:30

I don't know if this is true or not, that

34:33

I was going to go

34:36

through a lot of

34:38

stuff that wasn't really easy to

34:40

go through and

34:44

be able to transform it or somehow work

34:46

with it so that I could teach other

34:49

people, so I

34:51

could be a spokesperson for

34:53

change. And I could

34:55

reach people from personal experience, so

34:58

that I could let people know that no matter

35:00

what they've gone through, including losing all their money,

35:04

they could come out

35:07

being magnificent, pretty much.

35:10

And I really believe that. I

35:12

believe that no matter what,

35:15

and if you live in food hell

35:17

or lose all your money, there's

35:20

a way of working with it. No

35:22

situation is unworkable. What inspires

35:24

you? Well, nature always

35:27

inspires me. I just keep coming back

35:29

to nature. People who tell the

35:31

truth inspire me.

35:34

What is the lesson, Miss

35:37

Janine, that took you the

35:39

longest to learn? I

35:42

can tell you what is still taking me the

35:44

longest to learn, which is

35:47

unconditionally loving

35:51

myself, cherishing myself, welcoming

35:53

myself. And I think that's why I'm

35:55

so good at talking about it, because

35:58

it's been. You know, I've

36:00

had a pretty intense inner critic,

36:04

and I've gone through a lot of judgment and shame. And

36:07

so I keep learning this over and over

36:09

and over again. And

36:11

so I think I'm still learning

36:13

it. What do you think is

36:15

the clearest, cleanest, most

36:18

open path to your authentic self? You

36:20

mean besides your relationship with food? Because

36:22

that's a big path. I feel like

36:25

that's a really big path. And

36:27

I feel like most women don't

36:30

value that enough. I

36:32

just don't feel like most women do. They

36:35

think it's just a matter of willpower. And

36:37

if I can just, you know,

36:39

get it together, then everything's gonna be okay. But

36:41

it's the path that's right in front of them

36:44

that is the clearest path. I mean, that's

36:46

what I believe, the path that's right in

36:48

front of you. That's the path. That's the

36:50

path. And so whatever

36:52

that is, and for women who are

36:55

struggling or suffering with their relationship with

36:57

food, that's the path. And for

36:59

me, that was the path. That's

37:02

the path to your most authentic self. That's the

37:04

path to the whole. Yeah, that's the path to

37:06

the whole. It has been a delight to talk

37:09

to you and see you again. Oh, so lovely.

37:11

It's been a joy. A joy. Yeah.

37:13

Thank you. Yeah. I'm Oprah

37:16

Winfrey, and you've been listening to

37:18

Super Soul Conversations, the podcast. You

37:20

can follow Super Soul on Instagram,

37:23

Twitter, and Facebook. If you haven't

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yet, go to Apple Podcasts and

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subscribe, rate, and review this

37:30

podcast. Join me next

37:32

week for another Super Soul Conversation. Thank

37:34

you for listening. That's

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